Is AI Evil?

What are the implications of artificial intelligence (AI) from a biblical perspective? We explore ethical considerations, personal experiences and the need for discernment. Tyler expresses concerns about the potential dangers of AI, while Garrett emphasizes the importance of understanding its origins and applications. In this conversation, Garrett and Tyler explore the implications of artificial intelligence on human experience, discernment in information consumption, and the spiritual dimensions of technology. They discuss the importance of recognizing the sources of information, the potential pitfalls of relying on AI for personal relationships, and the need for discernment in a rapidly evolving technological landscape. The conversation emphasizes the necessity of seeking divine wisdom over machine intelligence, highlighting the spiritual warfare that underlies our engagement with technology.

Takeaways

Tyler Wilson returns to the podcast after a long break.
The conversation centers around AI and its implications.
Generative AI is different from traditional AI.
Personal discernment is crucial when using AI.
AI can be a helpful tool but has ethical concerns.
The hosts share their personal experiences with AI.
There is a need for guardrails in AI usage.
AI may challenge our creativity and human image.
Understanding the origins of AI is important.
The conversation encourages reflection on AI's role in our lives. AI can enhance human experience but also replace it.
Discernment in information sources is crucial for believers.
Scripture does not explicitly condemn AI, but caution is needed.
Relying on AI for personal relationships can be problematic.
We must consider the integrity of our thoughts and actions when using AI.
The rapid evolution of technology requires thoughtful engagement.
Creativity is a gift from God that we should not relinquish to machines.
Spiritual warfare is a reality in our technological interactions.
We should seek divine wisdom over the wisdom of machines.
The pursuit of ease and comfort can lead to spiritual complacency.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Welcome Back
05:50 Thanksgiving and the AI Discussion
12:01 Personal Experiences with AI
18:05 Theological Perspectives on AI
25:31 The Role of AI in Personal Relationships
33:21 Spiritual Warfare and AI
39:50 Seeking Divine Wisdom Over Machine Intelligence

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Transcript

0:00

Perfect. What's up, faithful agents, welcome back to another episode of the faithful agent podcast. I have an amazing special, super specially guest with me today. You might know him as Tyler Wilson, and that's also how I know him. Tyler will that's terrible. Tyler Wilson has returned to the faithful agent podcast after a. six month hiatus, I don't even know. know, people just now tuning in have no clue who you are and nor should they. They're better for it as they've just been enjoying my dulcet voice and muting me as often as possible. But Tyler Wilson is back. For those of you who know him, he is the co-founder of The Faithful Agent and was the co-host of The Faithful Agent podcast. You know, okay, I gotta tell you a quick story, T. So someone the other day, I forget where the context, okay, but someone the other day was talking, introducing the faithful agent to somebody and they were talking about the podcast. like, yeah, Garrett is the host and his cohost Tyler. And you know how hard that is for me. I didn't say anything, but I'm thinking he's not the cohost anymore. He's even been here like six months. Hello. Have you not listened to an episode? yeah it's just it's me. There's one host one guest. It's me You just get my thoughts. That's why ratings are plummeting. It's just about what I think for 30 minutes My wife said to me the other day she was like I gave you know, we were talking about something right unrelated to Podcasting and my answer went on for at least 10 minutes. I don't know how long it was You know, and she said this is why you can do podcast by yourself for 30 minutes because you just talk. Like, you're not wrong, babe. You're not wrong. This is how this works. the irony is it's probably not that different. It hasn't really been that different for the last six months because now all you did was make fun of me for not talking enough as you rambled for 30 minutes. And so just made, I did you a service and all of our listeners a service, all of your listeners service by stepping away. to get a second personality. So at least have someone to talk to, but you're right. I do the same amount of talking. do you. that's true. It's unfortunate. Yes. I already have one. Is that weird? Yeah, it's, it's right behind me. That'd be strange. I, I should have a picture. If you're watching on YouTube right here of Tyler, it just says co-host, but I cross out co-host. It just says your picture because he's not the co-host anymore. No, I wish he was. He's not. He has abandoned us, but that's okay. things that we are to one another, you can just cross out co-hosts. Co-host is no longer one of them. It's good to have you back, buddy. Even if it's just once every six months, you can set a very slow clock to it. It is good. Yeah, once every six. All right. I like it. I like it. You know, that's good. So for all you listeners, if you ever say Tyler is the co-host, I am personally offended. Each guest that I have is as co-host as Tyler. So let's just be. Real about that, but I'm excited that he's here and this is launching on Thanksgiving Day. So happy Thanksgiving to anyone listening. We are thankful for you. We are thankful for this community. We love you all. We pray that you have an amazing Thanksgiving and maybe this will lighten. Well, I was going to say lighten it up a little bit. We're going to talk about a pretty heavy topic. So maybe, maybe not. If you don't want to go down this route, maybe pause it for Friday and listen to it then. But today we're going to talk about what is a biblical approach from our limited understanding to AI and the use of AI and all the technology that's out there. I just had a conversation with a buddy of mine about it. We actually hopped on this call and Tyler said, are you using AI? He had a conversation with a friend of his the other day. And so I think it's just time to have the conversation and Tyler's here so we get to have it. Now, before we have the conversation, though, as always, let me give you a joke, Tyler. I'm glad you're here because all I can do is say it and make fun of myself, but now that you're here, and as a reminder, I'm not doing Christian jokes anymore because I just can't find any that are actually good. So this is just a random, and speaking of AI, I asked ChatGPT to tell me the corniest joke it could. So here it goes. Why did the corn, why did the corn get called into the principal's office? because it was acting a little irresponsible. What's great is it took the, it was very literal when I said a corny joke, right? It actually used corn. Amazing, right? Isn't that good? Yeah, I know you've missed it because you don't listen to the show anymore. So it's good. It's good. All right. Every six months you can listen to the episodes. Well, we're five minutes in on the intro. So if anyone is still here, Let's talk about AI because it is a big topic. It's happening all around us. Both Tyler and I have had conversations with people recently and I think it's necessary for us to, you know, if you're listening to this, don't expect to walk away with a very clear answer. We don't know, right? We don't have a very clear answer on this. We don't know biblically everything that it says about AI and what our reaction and response to it is. We just want to have a conversation. We want to hopefully ask questions that you think about. that you pray on or reflect on. Because I think ultimately there's a lot of personal discernment when it comes to what I feel is appropriate and what isn't, right? We all are going to have different aspects in our walk that will say that's not appropriate for me, but someone else might say it's fine. If it's not expressly forbidden in Scripture, cool. Have discernment. See what it is. So let's just really quickly, T, when we talk about AI, we're talking about generative AI like chat GPT and these online sites that you can create video or, you know, create an avatar of yourself, that kind of thing. We're talking about generative AI versus like artificial intelligence that's in your phone that just responds when you input data, it just kicks data back. We're talking about generative AI, which my understanding, limited understanding is it's taking input, but it's searching everything. And then it's formulating what it thinks is the right answer and it's giving it back as opposed to here's data and just kicks it back out. Right. So my understanding is there's a difference between that. But man, so we're talking about let's just say chat, GPT. That's what most people think about. So, man, first blush your thoughts and tell me actually first about you were having a conversation in a group of people with a friend of yours who's not a believer, who's crushing it. What was his thoughts? What did he think about AI? I think, I mean, so anybody that doesn't know me or that we haven't talked about, like, to be overly transparent, I don't have any social media. I'm not an active user of most literally any social platform. So I will try to keep my perspective as unbiased as possible. I base that opinion off of a lot of stories. That's a separate conversation that we've had plenty of times already. But they're undertones to that disengagement that I think apply to this AI topic as well, just because there's so much of it that is interpretive and applicative that are outside of my understanding. The algorithms, the formula with how these things are actually generating thoughts, like where does all of it come from? All of the exposure that social media platforms you know, are putting in front of our faces or in front of our kids faces all the time. Like, what is the genesis of that algorithm? What's the motivation behind all of it? Obviously, it's to capture attention. So at any cost, like through whatever means necessary to capture attention, that's how these platforms are built. And so I think as a concept, that is completely at odds with what scripture would command us to be doing, meaning fixating our eyes. solely and entirely without distraction onto the Lord and then utilizing the truth that he has given us to then in turn make decisions and application. So, I mean my initial blush on all of this is that it's evil if we're going to be dramatic, right? Like I think that there's so many great uses just like I think social media has a ton of great uses just like I think there's a lot of things that the world has turned sinful that have incredible uses but I'm a firm believer in the lack of my recognition or recognition of people around us. If we don't have the ability to plug a hole when it starts leaking or recognize when maybe we've taken a good thing and turned it bad, or we've let our guard down and our hearts have been infiltrated or being influenced or impacted by the secular world, that I think we should be putting up higher fences rather than lowering them and letting more influence come in. My overarching thought, and let's get into the conversation, is that we need to be extremely careful with how we're utilizing this. Whether it's a biblical premise or not, whether it's sinful or not, AI is not spoken about specifically in Scripture, but the application of artificial intelligence, if we're talking about that, I think is where we should take the conversation. We believe in truth. believers we believe in this one ultimate source of truth one ultimate source of knowledge the fear of the Lord's beginning of understanding right the fear of Lord's beginning of knowledge right so if we are believing those things then to say that artificial intelligence or artificial knowledge it wish there's direct application to like there's some synonyms there that we do see in scripture and we should be thoughtful about the funnel through which we're taking it in. I I know you use it effectively and wrestle a lot with the idea of this is an efficient tool that can give me time back to use in great places. You don't know where that line is, just like none of us do. And so how do you kind of guard against lowering your fences or guard against maybe using it? in the wrong way. What's kind of been your journey to get into the place where you use it now beyond just really funny jokes? That's the only real application I think it has no, you know I want and I want to come back to what you said In a second of you would say that it's evil Rex. I want to dive into that. I would classify So I use chat GPT some I don't use it very much I mean, you know So I'll I'll use it and I want to talk about the business principle and aspect of it, right? But I'll use it for you know It's morning time and I'm trying to figure out what to make for breakfast for the kids and I'm like I don't know what to make because I have like three options Mm-mm. can think of on my head. And so I'll type in, I need a healthy breakfast for kids that has excellent tea and it kicks out a recipe. I'm like, man, that's super helpful. Right. It's just a better Google. if you ask me, so I use chat GPT a lot for that. I definitely, as Tyler and I were talking about, I question and wrestle kind of with the idea of, I've never used it yet for, you know, creating an Instagram reel or Instagram posts and then just. Cause what happens is we take it and we just create the Instagram video or we create a post and we just put it out there as if we wrote it. And I don't know. I feel like there's a lack of integrity there, right? And I don't see anybody saying written by Chachi PT, right? There's no credence to it. It's like, we put it out there as if it's our own. And so I don't know. I get confused honestly on it. I've... I've gone all the way because I've listened to all the training and done this stuff, right? I've played with the AI avatar where it can actually create a real life avatar view. All you do is put in the text and then it makes the video as if it's you. I mean, it's not perfect, right? But I was playing around with that. Man, I spent hours on that thinking, this is going to be great. It's going to give me so much productivity. Now I don't have to make videos anymore. Mm-hmm. played around with it. And honestly, the first thought was, is going to be awesome and so helpful. My second thought was, this is not created that well. You know, it's not perfect yet. You can tell that it's off a little bit. And the third thought was, this is totally creepy, right? Like this isn't actually me. And so as a believer, again, I don't, you you mentioned an earlier T and I don't know where the line is, right? But if a pastor of our church was saying, Hey, he sends a video out to the church and it's whatever his thoughts on this week's sermon I don't know whatever reflection he's doing and It comes out. It's just an AI generated video and be like that's weird You know that does you probably used chat GPT to write the script for you And then you put it into this AI generated machine that created an AI generated you you didn't even do it you like that wasn't even you and so there's There's that weirdness of it right now in the business world. There's definitely that pull into, well, this is how we get super effective and efficient. This is like your high level, you know, assistant that can do all this stuff for you. And I played with it a lot, right? Just to give a baseline. I played with it a lot. I've, certainly use chat GPT every now and then, right? I use chat GPT. I definitely have looked at like there's different AIs out there that help you with scheduling. And I liked it. just, was too overwhelming, honestly. So I didn't use it and it kind of made the decision for me what was more important based on how I rated it. And I don't know, it kind of took the thinking away from me. And so I didn't like it and I got rid of it. I've tried AI that again, creates these videos for you. I've tried AI avatars. I've tried a lot of this stuff because I see that it's valuable, but one way or another, I ended up just thinking, this is strange. And so chat GPT becomes more like Google to me. And now we've done different things, right? Like me and my assistant have done different things where we'll take information and just say, Hey, I need you to summarize this for me, or take this and turn it into 200 characters. Cause that's all we're allowed to do. And I don't know. I don't have a problem with that. It's like, I'm taking my own words and I'm just hiring an editor quote unquote, called chat GPT and be like, can you summarize this, make this simple? I don't, I don't see that as weird. I don't see that as a problem. We were talking beforehand, T and I want to kick it back to you, but We were talking beforehand and I was saying, I was just playing with this to see what it is. And I took the 10 episodes we had done, the Faithful Agent series before we went full into the Faithful Agent. I took the transcripts, I uploaded them and said, turn this into a 30 page ebook, thinking that might be a good way to serve the community as well. And it's working on it. And it's like, is that, is that wrong? Cause it's my words. I didn't ask it to write a book for me and then just say, Hey, I wrote this. Right? Like I was going to give credit to us, those who were on the show. I was going to say edited by Jeff GPT, right? Like, is that okay? Because it was actually my words versus is it okay if you're a believer to say, write a ebook for me that's 30 pages about, you know, the faithful agent and include X, Y, and Z. And then it does. And I put it out like, Hey guys, I came up with an ebook. That to me feels like now we've crossed the line in the business world where now we no longer are representing truth. Right. We're just representing the most efficient, easy, effective way possible. and I don't know, there's value in the challenge. There's value in the struggle. So, man, I don't know now again, and I want your opinion because I wouldn't say that it's evil. I would say that now maybe one day I will. Right. I would say right now it's dangerous and I don't think we're thinking biblically enough about it. I don't think there's any discernment about it. I think it's more just like, let's go use it. Cause it's here. What do you think? Like why, why, what makes you say it's evil? Explain that. I don't know that I've ever even said that word out loud, and there's probably some emotion behind that conviction, but I think the reason what can make it evil is because of the lack of guardrails that really exist in it, right? There is no, we haven't identified, this is the whole point of the conversation, is like, how far can we take it? All right, and that slippery slope of, just like sin is gonna constantly pull us. farther and farther away from the Lord and into death, a slippery slope of something that has immense power and that the world is continuing to give more and more power that literally has no guardrails to it. think that it has the potential, maybe it's, maybe I wouldn't say that I have a reason to say it's evil now, but that is, I think, actively at war with the human image. It's actively fighting against our creativity in the image of God's glory that we were all created in. I think that it is a fake person, right? And we're building fake information. It's real information, but it's fake application of information, right? Like the glory that we exhibit, the character that we get to exhibit every day in the intangible qualities that have been imputed to us are what make us glorious in God's image, right? Artificial life and artificial generation is the antithesis of that. It's building arbitrary character away from God's sovereign hand. I don't want to that took it really deep theologically, but like that is why I think that evil should be a word that's maybe a part of the conversation. I mean, I wouldn't die on that hill, but that's just kind of where it came out of. you look real quick. So you look at the foundations of where these came from, right? I mean, there's so many stories of you couldn't, it wouldn't create an image of a Christian, right? Or if it did, it would look like a transgender person. so there's a lot of everything other than scripture was created by wicked, sinful man, right? Not breathed out by God. And so everything is going to be marred by sin at the end of the day. So is there wickedness associated? I would say everything has wickedness associated with it. We live in a fallen world. And now to your point, it's have we just opened the gates and said, cool, come on in. You know, if they, a, as a believer, got to have discernment. Like for me, I think of you got to have discernment. Okay, great. There's a worship song. Cool. They call themselves Christian, but look at who wrote it. Right. And where did, what did they believe? Right. So like understand the origins of it. You got to look at. a chat GPT or AI, what are the origins of it? Who created it? What is their thought process? Again, no, even if they're a believer, you still can't just trust it like it's scripture, right? You look at, you know, I'm going to ruffle feathers, but you got to look at the origin of the Enneagram, right? And you see the demonic undertones of that and go research that. But like, you got to look at where this stuff came from before we just openly accept it, right? Because there are applications to it. There's stuff about, you know, health care and how now, like instead of the doctor, seen your lump a hundred times. Now they can run it through and they've seen it 2 million times, whatever. That's good. I think that's a grace from the Lord, but we're talking about really this idea of replacing human-ness with machine-ness, right? almostly, almostly. said almostly. that's a great word, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's an incredible, I think such a critical point. mean, kind of circles back to my initial rant on the thing is the source of the information that we subscribe to matters in everything. The source of which we, you know, who our coach is, the source of how the model in which we want to build our business, the source in which we gain information on how we want to teach our kids, the books that we read and how to improve our marriage. The source of all those things matter. We would always filter through those sources and we should. If you're not, should be researching authors, should be researching websites and what those people publicly stand for or advocate for before you start consuming that information as truth. Because even if people are saying that it is the application of scripture or they're self-proclaimed believers or they have your best intentions in mind. Maybe they do, we... Discernment as a believer is not constant skepticism. It's not constantly doubting everything that's going on around us. But discernment is taking, recognizing sources, recognizing where that information is coming from. And if it's anything apart from somebody that's at least in pursuit of the Lord or from the Word directly, then it should be taken with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean that the Lord hasn't used broken jars of plague to provide amazing information, amazing resources that have, you know, depicted His common grace to all of the world. the Lord, that scripture is clear about that, that sinners are still utilized for His gain. He used Satan to ultimately accomplish His Christ mission here on Earth. Like, God is sovereign over all of these things, so have hope in all of that. We're just having this conversation about like, How do we kind of apply all of these things? One thing, and this I think is interesting, talking about, so Chelsea, my wife, Chelsea and Rachel, Garrett's wife are super best friends obviously, anybody that hasn't listened to Six Months doesn't know that yet, but talking about just like you said, like Rachel uses it when she wakes up in morning, like hey, I've got these things, we need to make dinner. You know for the next week before you know the budget resets and like we're not going to the store how do that's a great It's an incredible utilization of that like so smart to even think to use that as a resource, right? Like that's a good thing So like I don't think that that's evil but like, you know just to be overly clear like I know we're speaking kind of in some extremes, but you know, we should we're speaking in terms of what how we should be counseling people to like be considerate of right like And to think about it, right? Cause that's cause like you said, T you're a hundred percent right. Scripture doesn't flat out say artificial intelligence is evil, right? Cause it wasn't around at the time, you know, it doesn't talk about everything. And so we have to look at it discerningly, right. And try to understand just what's the reality of where this came from, what it's being used for, what it's even doing to me. Right. I mean, I definitely use it at times where, you know, get a My buddy, right? So talking to a buddy of mine last week, he's an elder at his church. He's a tech specialist. And I just asked him, man, what's your, what's your thought on artificial intelligence? Cause you're a Bible believing a teacher at your church, right? Love this dude. He's super solid. And you understand it in a way that I don't, right. And he was just at a conference about artificial intelligence. wasn't a Christian conference, just a conference in general. Excuse me. And he gave the example of he's like, Hey, my wife and I are going on a vacation this weekend. We're dropping the kids off with. my mother-in-law. And so I just went and we were, think they're coming near you actually T in Charlottesville. And he used chat to EPT and was like, Hey, come up with a really fun, you know, I don't know what he said, but romantic weekend for my wife and I with kids and what we can do. And it kicked out this great idea. And he said, you know, it's things like this that I appreciated his comment and I want to be like this too. And when we talk about discerning, he said, you know what? I don't, I don't know that it was wrong that I did that, but I also don't know that it was right that I did that. Right. I kind of just said, Hey machine, give me some ideas to have a great weekend with my wife instead of the work of just thinking about my wife and what she would enjoy and doing the hard work to find places and come up with a schedule. Again, I don't know where I fall on that, but it's that idea of if the pastor says summarize Romans whatever, Romans nine for me, I'm gonna preach it on Sunday. I would say that's not appropriate because it doesn't have the context, number one, it's not a Christian, right? So there's no godly wisdom inside the machine, but it also doesn't have the context of who's in your church, right? What if someone's wrestling with whatever, divorce or cheating spouse, and you're thinking of the scripture in relation to that, and you know you wanna speak to that. It doesn't have any of those things. And so there's a lot of the fear for me, I think there's kind of two pieces to this tea from my limited perspective, which one is, has it caused me to give up doing the hard work of thinking and processing, right? There's an aspect of that that concerns me. There's another aspect of it that concerns me that is the integrity of we're putting out stuff like we created it and we didn't, we had nothing to do with it. And all we're doing is letting the world influence what we do. Right? Second Corinthians talks about, not be unequally yoked. And I think that applies certainly to don't be in business with non-believers who are going to steer you in the wrong direction. That was the point, right? If you had unequally yoked back in the day, it's like, have this big, strong ox like Tyler, then you have this chunky little short ox like me, and you yoke them together. We're not going to be able to walk. It's true. We're not going to be able to walk in a straight line forever. Eventually you are going to go faster because your legs are long and my are little nubs and you're going to You're going to spin us around, right? But that's the point is you can't be unequally yoked. Well, we shouldn't do that in business with nonbelievers, in my opinion, I think the second thing he's talking about. We also should recognize, are you making this chat GPT artificial intelligence your business partner? Are you letting it write content for you? Are you are you going to it and saying, hey, I'm really struggling with this day. Can you help me figure out what I should do? Don't know we're supposed to confess our sin and be healed right James 1 we're supposed to seek those things out and be in community we're supposed to seek the Lord for discernment and wisdom and I fear for myself too that we just Easily go to chat GBT like hey solve this problem for me. My marriage is struggling, right? What should I do and it kicks out ideas as opposed to saying hey pastor or elder? My marriage is struggling man I need your help and they come and you talking and they pray for you right? Chat GBT is not gonna do that I saw the other day, T, and then I'll shut up, but I saw the other day, it was this commercial. And it was for a new Google phone. Maybe Google, Jim and I guess maybe is what they call their AI, I can't remember. But the commercial is the people holding their phone and just like having a conversation with the AI thing. And it's like, man, I had a really rough day today and it's this, this and this. And the AI is like, hey, you I'm sorry you had a hard day. You should think about doing X, Y, and Z. And they're like, that's a great idea. And it just is. Yeah. Yeah. and I, again, it's, we need a lot more time on this, all of us, but I think my challenge to myself, to you, to Christians is just think about how to think about it, right? Don't just accept it because it's here. Don't just accept it because everybody's using it. And don't just accept it because you feel like you're going to get behind because we worship a God who's our unfair advantage in the marketplace. If we honor the Lord by not doing what everybody's doing, He can grow your business like crazy, right? You don't need it to be them. But it just is like, gotta figure out, we gotta stop long enough to think about how do we discern what this is? That's just weird, right? Again, right or wrong, I don't necessarily know yet, but we often err on, if I don't know that it's wrong, I'm just gonna do it because everybody is, as opposed to, I don't know yet, so therefore I'm not going to do it. And we're not even talking about our kids and what they're going to grow up with, right? And all those things, cause it's just too big of a topic for us to understand. It's in the business application sense. Are we giving ourselves away to this machine to say, help me figure this out, you know, be my business partner, and give me this wisdom or are we like actively seeking the Lord and I struggle with that too. Or are we just seeking for the easiest, quickest answer that exists? So I think it's really those both sides of that, right? yeah, and we're gonna keep pulling this thread. But like I think another concept we should be considered of you touched on as you're just speaking is the reliance that we have on just technology in general, right? Like in every facet. I'm kidding. My wife convicted me of this recently of just like the idea of you don't know the answer to a question. You just take two seconds and ask your phone what the answer to the question is and it tells it to you rather than maybe thinking about a way to problem solve on your own again, not the not wrong things, but like have we thought about the fact that once we had smartphones introduced, how did we solve problems when we were teenagers? Like we needed to figure out, hey, where are we gonna meet? Or hey, I need to let my spouse know where I'm gonna be for however long or be, it's just a different, life has evolved in a lot of different ways. Not necessarily those things are wrong, but we need to be conscious of just how far the evolution has come and how quickly it has happened, the path that we're going on. I don't want to be reliant on technology to give me all of the answers because I recognize that I'm not wise enough or strong enough to know when I'm taking answers from a source that I shouldn't be trusting with complete autonomy when those answers are now not in line with what I should be subscribing to. Right? Like we should be taking that information and filtering it again through the lens of scripture, through the lens of just discerning. peers and that we're walking through life with. But that idea of reliance is a very real thing. And that's probably maybe another podcast topic to talk about how do we rely on technology and our families just in terms of, we'll put a pin in that one, right? But we're getting, this is just another feature that is taking up more of our creativity, of our own creative thoughts that we work. gifted by the Lord to be able to have. It's a gift that we can think creatively, that we can have freedom in our life to be able to know Him and seek Him more and wrestle through each of those. Those are all, we're trying to give that away. I mean fighting for our own ability to think creatively is something that not even everybody in the world has and now we're just willingly and freely giving that away to for ease and comfort. I mean that's That's a whole nother topic too. we that were just seeking somebody do it for me. I have a problem. It's just somebody fix it for me. Like I don't I don't want to fix it right like just the culture knows give them the easiest thing possible because that's what we crave. I don't want to have to do anything. Right. I don't want to do anything. We're going to make you lazy. Like all the things it's the world giving us what the world says we should have. And we're like, cool. Thank you. You know, Again, this is bigger than AI, but to your point, I look at it I didn't, this was not my thought. forget who said it to me, but someone said, we're trying to do things at such a fast speed, right? We're like, this will make me super efficient. But they made a comment like, but if it's not worth taking the time to do it well, then it's just not worth doing in general. And so I find that to be true for me. It's, man, I really need to kick this out. Hey, chat, chbt, help me. And is that good? Mm-hmm. me taking the time and saying, is this important because I believe this is what the Lord wants me to do. I'm going to take the time to be excellent at it. And if the answer is no, and I just need a quick response again, you know exactly what you said. You and I, I think are trying to walk this balance of, can't call it sin because scripture doesn't, or I don't know enough about it, right? To be able to say scripture says this is sinful. So we're not taking the stance to say scripture clearly outlaws this. can't do it. Right. Because I don't know that it does. And I don't know it that it does. Right. I'm not saying it does. I'm not saying it doesn't. I don't know enough yet. But I think we are saying there's some real concerns here. Right. About what's going on in the world never shows up to say how do we make Garrett and Tyler in all of these Christians? How do we make them look more like Christ? That's not Ever what happens the world shows up and says how do we distract you from pursuing a christ-like life? Let's give it to you right and there's all of this stuff, right? And I I want you to take us out with your final thought here in a sec But I love I love this podcast called the haunted cosmos. I've tried to get tyler to listen and he won't listen. Okay, and Have you the the first episode that I showed him was titled like ghosts and he was like no But you can listen to this, right? And the point is this, of this podcast, they're saying, how do we look at all this weird stuff and run it through a biblical lens, right? You know, ghosts, what is that? Bigfoot, what is that? Aliens, what is this, right? And listen to it and draw your own conclusions. But what I think they do, they actually have a podcast on AI. What I think they do a really good job of, though, is saying this, is all throughout scripture, and you see this throughout history, is the demonic influence of these things. They're only giving humans what they're already looking for, right? So when humans are looking for alien spacecraft, what do they do? If they wanted to see us, what's the easiest way to deceive us? Show up in the thing we're already looking for, right? Show up and say, yeah, there's aliens. Look, we're gonna distract you away from the glory and beauty of the father, right? Cause look at all this other stuff or you're looking for whatever it is. The demonic wisdom, right? Unfortunately, they're not dumb. is to show up and say, we're going to show up in whatever you're already looking for, and we're going to twist it so that we distract you from pursuing a Christ-like life, or we distract you from the glory of the Father. We're just going to show up in what you're already looking for, and we're going to distort it. And they give examples of, for example, in AI when you read these, or listen to the show. So my point is in this, right, is for us thinking about it, the world is not just stuff. The world is not just people. There is spiritual warfare happening all around us all the time. Right. And I think we've got to think carefully about everything. But we're talking about AI. We've got to think carefully and say, what is the world trying to do with this? Even the demonic influence of the devil is you going to and fro trying to devour you. Right. Is what scripture says. He's not chill. He's not like you can't just hang out with them. You can't. You know, just say like, he's, he's, he's not worried with me right now. No, he's trying to destroy us, right? He's actually trying to drag us into hell to keep us from following Jesus. And so he's going to use every means necessary. And again, I'm not flat out saying AI is demonic. I, maybe there's parts of it that there are, right? What I'm saying is just be aware that there's more at play here. And it wasn't given to us to just edify us like scripture. It was given to us for what? And I think we've got to ask those kinds of questions like we're trying to do here, right? So Tyler, I'm going to send you that episode of Hana Cosmos and expect you to listen. It's only like two hours long. would you? Okay, I'm going send it to you after this. It's like two hours long, but you 1.75 speed and you're good. That's good. I might edit this out. All right, continue. out anyways. The image, and not to keep belaboring this, I feel like I'm like jilting my perspective clearly into like a super anti-chat GPT. Even though I did disclaim make clear that I don't think it is a great thing that we should be. I just choose to remove things that I think are gonna be a distraction, right? That I think I'm not gonna utilize well or gonna pull me away. This image as we've been talking just came into my mind. What if, you know, one day, Guy in a white van pulls up in front of the house with a donut for you, G, and is like, hey, jump in, let's go for a ride, and we'll think about, we'll talk, and we'll think about this stuff. I'm gonna bring you right back here. And you're in, absolutely you are. 100 times out of 100. And then every day he keeps bringing you back home. He keeps bringing you back home, and you're just building more more trust with him. And then all of sudden, 90 days in or whatever, you don't come home one day. That's a super dramatic example. But I think that these ideas of what we have to be on guard for is the slow seduction of what these really cool things are. They're cool! Like, I'm not, they are really cool. It's amazing the creativity that humans have been granted by God's hand. Like, it's incredible. But when completely uncontrolled and not put in check... We are always going to default to trying to be like God, to be our own God. Think about the idea of the original sin that Adam and Eve ate of the fruit just so that they could be like God was the ultimate kind of source and temptation that Satan gave to them in Genesis 3. That's real. We fight that every single day. In Chat GPT, If you're having this conversation intellectually with it, and I've heard people talk about, I wake up in the morning and I go on my walk, I have this conversation with my chat GPT about my day and get my encouragement from them, and they're my counselor, they're my best friend, they're each of these things that makes me sad. One, I think it's a total perspective of how the world has gone more independent and into isolationism than it ever has, and this is only going to push us farther and farther in that direction. But in the same vein, You can tell it, say, chat CPT, like, want, give me, this is what's happening with my girlfriend or boyfriend, my spouse, like, what should I do here? And they give you an answer and you don't like it, and you say, no, no, give me an answer that makes me right. And it'll give you another answer. It will tell you anything that you want to hear. That is the original sin, right, in that particular moment. What is the source of that information? I don't like it. Tell me an answer that I want to hear. and it'll just change right there for you in that singular moment. I think, mean, unless you have anything you want to chime in on that G, like, yeah. Yeah. So I agree. I'm just going to end with this. First Corinthians one, verse 25. The foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom. Right. I think the ultimate fear for me, for Tyler, for any of us is that we become look, we look to this genius level machine and we forget that everything it can come up with and as amazingly fast as it comes up with it is foolishness, right? Compared to the Lord's wisdom. It is foolish. And so may we seek discernment and seek the living God for what is right and good and true. And Chachi Petit might agree sometimes, but if Chachi Petit doesn't, it's wrong. Right at the end of the day, I think we have to be weary, careful, right, of these machines, these man-made things that are not meant to edify us and make us like Christ. They just aren't. and so anyways, for Tyler and I don't know the answer, right? Certainly not. But I hope that even asking some of these questions and getting some thoughts will make you have conversations. Maybe inside your church, you're asking that question. Maybe if you're part of a local group with the faith, you're just asking that question wherever it is, you just start, you're asking yourself that question. As you read scripture, you spend time in prayer. You're just asking yourself that question that the Lord would grant us discernment as we approach these. seemingly innocuous is that the right word innocuous machines when really maybe they're trying to deceive us i use that right didn't i that's impressive for me thank you i've i have i needed to have one big word since you were back to make you proud of me so there it is well terrible ending but we love you faithful agents and we genuinely don't know either and this is a discussion that we want to have and We hope you'll continue to have it. pray for us, pray. We will pray for you as we all seek discernment in this. And at the end of the day, whatever it is that we do, may the Lord be glorified in all of it. May we act as believers, not simply as people over the world. And may we seek the wisdom of God, which is far superior to the quote unquote wisdom of man. we love you faithful agents and I will see you next week as the host of this show and Tyler will see us six months from now. We love you, we'll see you next week.